Who is this Jehovah that you talk so knowledgeably about?
The Hebrew desert god is only one amoung many hundreds of worthier gods that have been invented.
THE GLADIATOR
JoinedPosts by THE GLADIATOR
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108
"Jehovah ALWAYS had/used an organization". How would you reply?
by EdenOne inin a recent meeting with elders, an argument was used to the effect that jehovah has always [= throughout history] used, or operated through, an organization; therefore, the wts must be that organization today, since god must be using one.
naturally, i know what arguments i've used to counter that argument.
but i'm interested in hearing yours.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
Eden one - I can only conclude what the Bible allows me to conclude.
You cannot be serious!
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
tootired2care The answers offered by those in favor of theism, have so far not provided a satisfying answer to your question. For me, this question matters. Why? What right does anyones super diety have to make demands of people, and tell them what true morality, justice and love is, when it just sits back and watches this horrendous affair and many others like it for the past 200,000 years as man has evolved and suffered, and painstakingly had to figure everything out on their own anyways?
An excellent comment. The only acceptable conclusion is that the monstrous god of the bible is pure fantasy.
In truth there is freedom.
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THE GLADIATOR
The terms are ambiguous and the pay off is out of this world.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
EdenOne post 921 - Don't mock the hope that others have, for it's better to find comfort in hope than to live without it.
Illusion often offers temporary comfort.
The question is whether we place comfort over truth?
That is an individual choice that we all must make.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
cofty - The point I was making is that although Christians maintain that the god of the bible no longer tampers with the activities of the natural earth, they claim that he does still talk to some humans. If this is the case he could have, at the very least, whisper into the minds of those at risk or bellow a warning from the heavens. Your plan sounds better!
adamah - That's far-out man.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
This debate is very similar to the long running thread that Tammy gave a link to. The reason this thread has gone on for so long, is that the question asked has not been answered. I take it we are talking about the failure of the god of the bible, Jehovah or Yahweh, Jesus’ father, to warn humans about the tsunami on 26th Dec 2004.
Inevitably it comes down to the question of whether such a god has ever existed. There are Biblical accounts of this god of talking to humans and sending angels. Either these events happened or they didn’t. We ask, does god still talks to humans and sends angels? How can we know one way or the other? According to the bible, angels are messengers, and Jehovah has myriads of them. Did he send one with a message that could have prevented the needless death of a quarter of a million innocent men, women and children in the tsunami on 26th Dec 2004. We all agree that the answer, sadly, is NO. Has he sent an angel at any time in the last 1900 years? The answer again is, not as far as we know. In view of this, is it unlikely that the tales of angels are anything more than folklore.
The matter would normally end there with some choosing to believe regardless of the plain fact that we have no evidence that angels ever existed. Except for one thing - some Christians, who are alive today report that one of god’s sons, Jesus, regularly talks to them; often about trivial matters. For those of us who have left behind the illusionary world of the Watchtower Society and concluded that invisible gods do not exist, this is a most extraordinary claim. As we all know, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
For those that claim Jesus still talks to humans, we must ask again; why he does he not talk to humans and warn them about major disasters, such as the in the tsunami on 26th Dec 2004, giving them a chance to flee. Could he not spare just one messenger-angel for an hour; or send a million messages in a few second via Google?
It is perfectly fair and reasonable to ask those that hear Jesus voice why he did not issue a warning to humans - his own creation. In the absence of a rational answer, the only conclusion we can come to, is that the god of the Bible has never spoken to humans and has no angels to use as messengers. The only intellectually honest conclusion is that he does not exist.
Atheists do not need to prove to others that such a god does not exist, but we do at times feel a moral obligation to publicly state that we no longer wish to be associated with the biblical myth of Jehovah of armies.
I would like to add that most atheists did not start out with a desire to remove all gods from their life. Quite the opposite! Most atheists on this board made many sacrifices and spent many years seeking, worshiping and trying to please the god of the Bible and follow his son Jesus. Many honest seekers of truth have come to the conclusion that if the god of the bible, and his son, existed and still spoke to humans, he would have issued a tsunami warning on 26th Dec 2004 - instead the silence is deafening.
Tammy, this post is not written specifically to you, though obviously, you are one of the Christians my comments will apply to. I say very little on this forum nowadays, rarely commenting on your posts; Cofty does well enough on his own. You post a great deal and have an influence on new posters who are looking for answers. The questions raised by this debate are too important for me to ignore.
Take Care - Trev
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
If a god existed, he would have followed normal protocol and informed the authorities of the impending disaster. Then, at least those that heeded the warning would escape with their lives. He would no doubt win many converts and not look so heartless. We are talking about his own creation - the human race. Of course, once we accept that there is no god, it all makes sense.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
Human life on earth would not exist were it not for this humble garden worm.
Human life on earth does exist without any help from an invisible sky daddy.
Let's keep it that way.
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2596
The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
by cofty inyesterday evening my wife and i were invited to friends house for new year's eve.
we met them when i was a christian and we have kept in touch.
they had a few other friends there as well, including the new church pastor and his wife.
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THE GLADIATOR
When I left the Jehovah's Witnesses, I still believed that Jehovah existed but was not prepared to serve vengeful bully who threatened to destroy his creation and had demonstrated his ability to do so. I raged against his cool indifference to humanity's suffering and his failure to prevent acts of god.
The anger and frustration left me when I realized that the whole Daddy in the Sky idea was a hoax. Suddenly life on earth made sense. I accepted that the world is the way it is because it can be no other way.
Pain and suffering are a part of life, as is joy and happiness. Life is not fair; how could it possibly be, given the random nature of events beyond human control. I blame wicked men for their greed and selfishness. Natural disasters are par for the course on a planet that is suspended in space and whizzing round an aging sun.
No god or gods to blame and no devil or demons to blame. No need to rage in anger against a non-existent, invisible fantasy. No need to choke with anger at the Biblical accounts of the fictitious atrocities of the Hebrew desert god Jehovah. Just the peace of enjoying being alive on such a beautiful planet until my time is over. Peace is possible without a head-full of nonsense.
